Warren Smith of BridgeUSA, a youth organization designed to help fight against the political division ripping the country apart, attended a youth summit where he planned to have difficult conversations with those who hold views in opposition to his own, hoping to demonstrate that it’s possible to have civil conversations on important issues.
During the event, a woke reporter sat down for an interview. When Smith confronted the reporter with facts and logic instead of emotional appeals, she quickly shut things down. A video of the interview has since gone viral online. The reporter started things off by saying, “I’m just going to say this, and you can debate it. You can’t be racist against white people. You can be prejudiced against white people. Racism implies a power imbalance.”
Smith asks her where she learned that definition of racism. “That’s just how it is, that there’s no way to arrive to that,” she said. Smith pointed out that her statement would be like saying, “Well, black people, they have to use separate water fountains because that’s just how it is. Sorry.” The reporter says, “If that’s how you want to take it, that’s how you want to take it.”
The conversation then turned to diversity, equity, and inclusion policies. “When people are talking about DEI. They’re specifically talking about trying to achieve specific outcomes,” Smith says, to which the reporter agrees. He tells the reporter that he didn’t think this works logically. In the video, Smith says that he tried to show the reporter that DEI will inevitably lead to racism when approached logically.
Smith tells the reporter that DEI is the only true form of systemic racism. “It’s not systemic racism against you. Everyone deserves a chance to speak and a chance to kind of be out there. We are only as good as representing everyone in our nation. It’s not just white men. It’s not just rich people. We need every single voice there,” she replies.
“So be equal opportunity, right?” he asks the reporter. She agrees. He then explains that equity is different than equality because it isn’t about equal opportunity, but equal outcome. She agrees. The reporter then stated she believes our society should be fighting for both. Smith asks her if he is misunderstanding equity.
“I don’t think you are. I think equity is leveling the playing field, so then everyone can reach an equal opportunity,” she says. “Okay, so let’s run through an example. Like, how do we level the playing field? I’m a firefighter, volunteer firefighter. So let’s use as an example. If there’s not enough of a specific skin color in the fire department, how do we fix that without being racist?”
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The reporter said that equity would be reaching out to minority demographics and making sure those individuals feel comfortable with joining a group like firefighters. Smith says this is just a form of advertising. He then challenges the reporter to go beyond advertising and explain DEI. She responds by saying she doesn’t understand the question.
“It’s opening up these doors for everyone, so we don’t have to get to a point where that is an issue,” she responds. “Can we get specific though? What does it mean opening up the doors without lowering standards?” Smith asks her. “It’s allowing people to understand that everyone is welcome and again bridging the gap. Advertising. I agree with you on that aspect. I think that’s part of it. It’s showing off that you’re. What do you mean?” she says as he asks her how a person actually gets the job under DEI.
“By making sure the standards are the same, by making sure everyone feels welcome and is trained the same way, that has nothing to do. DEI is nothing to do with equal with standards,” she continues. “You just said making sure everyone is trained the same way. How is that DEI?” Smith asks. “That’s just basic hiring,” she responds.
“Right. That’s my point. It’s not DEI,” he says. He asks again if the reporter can explain DEI to him. “DEI? DEI is making sure everyone feels welcome and secure, and that you’re not –” she starts before Smith says, “Just making people feel welcome.” She then adds, “It’s making sure everyone has the equal opportunity to apply to something. Everyone has the equal opportunity to get hired.”
“That’d be equality. That’s not DEI. DEI means something very specific. Equity means something different than equality. That’s why we have different words for both of them. Equal ability to become a firefighter. That’s not equity,” he explains once again. He asks her if she now thinks that maybe pushing for equal outcomes is a flawed process.
“I still don’t think so,” the reporter says. “I think you can debate the language, and you can confuse people with how you debate the language. I just think fighting for everyone to have equal rights, equal opportunities, making sure that playing field is equality and equity go hand in hand. You cannot have one without the other.”
“Okay, so the words mean specific things, and we have two different words because they mean different. It’s not like a word game, right? Can we agree on that?” Smith asks. She agrees. “Okay. So if they go hand in hand, but what what’s can you explain? What’s the difference between equity versus equality?” She then tells Smith, “Equity is making sure that so let’s say equality is just kind of giving everyone the same opportunity.”
“Equity is everyone has the same opportunity, but you might not have access to that opportunity because of obstacles in your way, so everyone has access to apply to a job. Not everyone can. Oh, let’s take colleges. Everyone has access to apply to colleges. Not everyone can afford the application fee. Not everyone can afford a college counselor to make sure they get in. Not everyone can afford tuition, loans, etc. etc.,” she adds. When he says it’s not applied to race, her face immediately shifts.
“the problem with equity is that it’s only applying that socioeconomic advantage based on skin color because they’re saying this group, this because a group –” she interjects to say she disagrees with Smith’s understanding of the concept. He later says, “I don’t understand why we break people down into groups based on race?”
“We shouldn’t. But that’s where we always have been. The whole point of I guess is to level that. It’s to make it so we get to a point where that those groups don’t matter. But right now, for bad people, they matter. So we have to overcorrect it to make it an even playing field. To then eventually down the year, down the line, everyone is exactly equal. No one needs an extra boost because they haven’t been disenfranchised,” the reporter explains.
He then agrees with the reporter that racism is bad, but then says that implementing more racism is not the right way to defeat racism. That’s when the conversation shifts to what was spoken at the beginning of the video, where Smith asks the reporter where she learned her definition of racism. “That’s any bullying, any kind of form of it’s about a power imbalance. It’s punching up versus punching down. Where did I learn that? I went to school. I went to university. I read. I do research,” she said.
Featured Image: screenshot from embedded video