Applause broke out during a tense Senate hearing after Sen. Rand Paul repeatedly pressed Dr. Anthony Fauci over gain-of-function research and ordered one of Fauci’s disruptive attorneys removed from the room. Fauci invoked the Fifth Amendment throughout the questioning, declining to answer Paul’s questions about research in Wuhan, work involving the intelligence community, and whether he still believed the benefits of gain-of-function experiments outweighed the risks. The confrontation ended with Paul warning that there could be repercussions for Fauci’s refusal to testify.
The exchange occurred during a July 29th hearing of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, which Paul chairs. Fauci, the former director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, appeared under subpoena to answer questions about the origins of COVID-19, unsafe biological research, and his conduct as a federal employee. Fauci arrived with several attorneys and announced that he intended to invoke his constitutional right against self-incrimination.
Paul began by reminding Fauci that his testimony had been compelled by a lawful subpoena and that knowingly making a material false statement to Congress is a federal crime. He then asked Fauci to explain the reasoning behind the federal government’s decision to fund research in Wuhan, particularly research performed in laboratories that Paul said lacked sufficient security. “Can you explain to the committee why you chose to fund this dangerous research in China?” Paul asked.
“On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer, based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution,” Fauci responded. Paul then pointed Fauci to a copy of the federal statute dealing with a witness’s refusal to answer pertinent questions before Congress. According to the committee’s official hearing page, Fauci was the sole witness scheduled before the full committee.
Paul asked whether Fauci had refused the unconditional pardon issued to him before former President Joe Biden left office or believed the pardon somehow failed to protect him. Fauci again declined to answer. Paul then formally directed Fauci to respond, arguing that the subpoena was valid and that the questions concerned his decisions as NIAID director and presidential adviser, but Fauci repeated the same Fifth Amendment response.
The questioning then shifted to other government research programs. Paul asked whether Fauci had been aware of gain-of-function work involving monkeypox at Fort Detrick, whether the CIA had transferred funds to the National Institutes of Health, and whether NIH had conducted research for or in coordination with the intelligence community. Fauci declined to answer each question.
Watch Senator Paul question Fauci and order his attorney removed here:
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Paul next raised federally funded experiments conducted by Dutch virologist Ron Fouchier involving avian influenza. He described research that introduced mutations allowing an avian virus to spread between ferrets through the air, arguing that the experiment demonstrated how dangerous gain-of-function work could become. Paul quoted Fauci’s previous defense of such research and asked whether he still believed that the scientific knowledge was worth the danger of an accidental pandemic.
“Do you think that the risks really are worth the benefits for gain-of-function research?” Paul asked. Fauci again replied, “On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer, based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution.” Paul then cited scientists who have argued that the risks outweigh the potential benefits and gave Fauci another opportunity to say whether he had changed his position, but Fauci refused.
Paul warned that the committee would consider what action should be taken after Fauci declined to answer despite being directed by the chairman. The proceedings then erupted when one of Fauci’s attorneys attempted to speak from the witness table without being recognized. “This testimony is from Anthony Fauci. This is not a game with his lawyers,” Paul said, adding that the attorneys could advise Fauci but were not themselves witnesses before the committee.
After the attorney continued interrupting, Paul warned him that a judge would have held him in contempt for behaving similarly in a courtroom. “Another word, and you’re gone,” Paul said. When the interruptions continued, Paul declared, “You are not recognized, sir. Security, please remove him from the room.” Members of the gallery broke into applause as security escorted the attorney away.
Featured image credit: screengrab from the embedded video.